WingColors

Thank you, Scrivs. That was inspiring.
Don't let my brevity convince you otherwise — I mean every word.

My pleasure. Thank you for reading my long-winded monologue.

This is something I've thought about for a long time and while my success has not been as great as I would have liked, I've had fun a long the way. And to me, that's what makes each venture worthwhile and interesting.

I don't know what I want to say, other than Thank You. Thank you for continuing to write and continuing to push and introduce ideas and things we might not have come across on our own.

Thank You.

Hey...since I'm Queen I get to wear a crown, right...right? :)

The odd thing is that people hold 9rules to a higher standard than they hold themselves - which makes no sense to me. It's perfectly okay for those criticizing to slack, not continue to be innovative, etc. but let us take some quiet time because we are working on the next version and what happens? 9rules failed. 9rules is too big. 9rules is too small. 9rules isn't what it once was...

Does anything stay the same? Are the cars we drive, the technology we purchase, the way we surf the internet the same as they were first produced or released? Even if the appearance is the same the backend usually changes so again it's not the same.

Scrivs, Mike and I are here everyday interacting with people, helping people. I like that even if we don't live up to the magical standards people place on us.

I can't relate in an online way as my life and goals are not web related, but it surely can apply to life outside the realm of the internet - for those of us whose goals are not internet or web related.

I don't imagine anyone is ever done.

Never looking back too long and always looking forward longer... seems something that we all should live by to me. I don't know I seem to get this yearly retrospective myself not at the new year but in the summer - something to do with my birthday being in the summer maybe, not sure. I get this kind of reflective / summing up and conclusion line drawing thing every year. I like that. Taking stock and being able to nod that you feel it's all good is really something you should be proud to be able to do - it's not always that way.

The 9rules is..... has worn thin unless people use say 9rules just is. The big thing here is that like all things that 'just work' and become an integral part of people's lives it slips up and under the radar. I've been a member of countless communities, endless betas that trailed off with my sign up of username - we all do. 9rules to me isn't like that - it's cemented and integrated into so many peoples lives (mine included). Now for that alone it should be something that last far longer than 15 minutes of fame.

Where else can you be busy, be yourself but always be welcomed when you come back? Where else can you be made to feel like family by people you've never seen but like family they be honest with you? The answer to me is no place fits like 9rules and I doubt anywhere else could ever. I don't think I'm alone in this. 9rules may grow but to me that is only extending the family as it's growth that never seems to negatively impact on the experience - well hasn't for me.

Be proud, be happy and be thanked by me for letting 9rules come into my life. It's a better one for it I am sure - that's not being over dramatic it's just the way 9rules is.

Hell if people think we got shit for Ali, wait till they see Ali2. That will really start to divide the lines, but also pave the way to a new trail. Yeah, I'm getting my ego on.

I've been trying to make a name for myself at least to be known for something. Being admitted into 9rules back then meant something huge to me because it meant that I was going forward in what I do and hopefully whatever thoughts that I put down would get the recognition that I worked hard to achieve. Underdogs are have it hard to have their 15 minutes, let alone keep it.

Then again, ever since 9rules opened its doors to the public (for reasons that make perfect sense), whatever work I put into my blog went back to square one. Because now I'd have to work on rebuilding that reputation from the beginning again. This time however, it feels no different from being in any other community. The loudest, most outspoken individual will be popular. Something I've always felt a deep hatred for even if it is the truth.

I know you guys at 9rules are working hard fending off detractors and building on the new Ali2 and me being just a single member isn't helping by this, that's why I've pretty much kept quiet for all this time about it because my feelings in this matter are insignificantly stupid.

It's just that I feel cheated in a way. 9rules was meant to showcase the best and I have been trying to do just that. Not be the best, but to be better at what I do. Yes. 15 minutes lasts for 15 minutes, but it's not without knowing that you can be better from where you last stood. It's been a year since I've been part of 9rules and either I've failed to keep up with being the best, or the rules of the game have changed entirely.

I was hoping that 9rules (at least the old one) could have been family for me. It just feels like I'm the obscure cousin by the corner thrice removed. Still related, but easily forgotten.

It doesn't mean I'm going to quit 9rules, neither does it mean I'm going to stop doing what I've done. It means I'll always be here, playing my part in the events that matter. Doing my best to in whatever I do even if it's out of the radar for most people.

Maybe I do hope that one day, I can have the recognition without being loudly outspoken or being female, but before that I'll be right here. The second opinion to life and relationships. The odd one behind the curtain. The guy that wears his thoughts and emotions on his sleeves.

Let's see where Ali2 takes us.

Well this was more of a personal thing and not what 9rules is doing in the future. It was meant to tell you to keep on blazing new trails and not rest on the laurels you may have garnered along the way. Trust me when I say Ali2 only benefits even further and gives you better chance to establish yourselves both within 9rules and on the web.

In a roundabout way Scrivs, I was telling myself the same thing. I can't change who I am, nor can I pursue the things I'm not. All I can do is always try to be a better version of myself.

It's always nice though to know that people acknowledge you for that.

But that's the thing Kami, I don't think you realize the reputation you have established around here. You are known for your Notes and the fact you can say emotional stuff without coming off as fluffy. You have established your legacy on 9rules just like a couple of others have as well. You are still young so web/life/career legacies are still in the making.

But the fact that you don't seem happy with what you have left behind so far is a good step in making sure you do take care of what you desire in the future. Some people could care less either way what happens past, present or future.

Haha, I'm always not happy with what's been left behind. I hope you understand it's not that I'm faulting 9rules. You guys have been doing a great job with the resources that you have.

It's just an example encased in a pent up frustration that the journey I've have actively pursued all my life isn't really moving in leaps and bounds.

All I can say is that it frustrates me a great deal that thoughts I put so much effort into mold into words get less attention than thoughts that are merely words that are said for the sake of it. It's hard to know where you've gone wrong when no one gives a damn to guide you through things you're unfamiliar with.

What exactly is this about, Scrivs? I've just read this note, Kami's post and yours two or three times now, and I can't say I get them.

Sure, they're about how it's easy to stand at the sidelines, not participating and then criticizing. The Weight Watchers post clearly is about the idea how 'you get out what you put in'. But I don't get what it is you're telling us... precisely.

The discussion has become a recurrent one: if you're not happy here, leave. I've seen it here, on the forum, on people's blogs. It's a valid point, because it's true, but...

I've never been very confident about my place as a blogger, so when these issues come up again, I always think they're aimed at me. Why? Because the terms used in the three articles are vague: some people, others, the problem, certain things... It's as easy for me to recognize myself and feel under attack (like Kami too, I suppose), as it is for these 'others' to ignore it altogether.

I think there is a danger to that vagueness. Not being crystal clear, there is the risk of people getting hurt. Another risk is that no one knows what it's about anymore. We should all just say it: I want this from the network, I want that from the members, I am prepared to put this much in. It would be a lot easier, for you, for us and for the readers.

Well this was more of a personal thing and not what 9rules is doing in the future. It was meant to tell you to keep on blazing new trails and not rest on the laurels you may have garnered along the way.

Simple as that. This is not a subtle 9rules post. It is a personal one for everyone's own benefit. hthth and peroty understood it just fine.

And let me say if there is something that I wish to communicate to 9rules Members about what we expect from them or any changes on our end I will do it through the proper channels and not in Notes.

posted response in other thread.

[rambling ... long after the discussion is over]

Hm.
Let me chime in from the sidelines, which I have removed myself too.

I think 9rules is a place where at least two distinctively different groups meet (with many shades inbetween). The first group is the one that attaches considerable importance to their online existence and the second one is one that does so to a much lesser degree, if any at all.

I belong to the second group.

I know that many people don't understand this, also because it's always difficult to explain, but I couldn't care less. I lose readers? Fine. I gain some? Fine. I fail? Fine. I win? Fine. If I stopped blogging tomorrow, I'd probably find something else to occupy myself with, maybe writing short stories or Origami. Who knows.

I do what I do for myself and therefore a lot of this talk about online recognition and the ensuing in-fighting (not in this thread, but you know what I mean) is simply beyond me. I think it's quite funny, actually. This is not to say that I haven't participated and have - at times - gotten pi**ed off here and there, but at the end of the day ... I don't care.

When Nils writes (above) about his insecurity, my answer would be ... why care? He writes brilliantly (even if he doesn't see it himself at times) and my question would be: Why are you writing? For yourself (which I assume) or for others? I decided for myself long ago that the latter ain't worth it if you want to get recognition out of it. I also know that many, many people would hotly argue against what I just said, probably stating that if nobody reads it or all of it is aimed at nobody in particular, why then publish online? And right you are, but my take is a different one ... which we could perhaps discuss elsewhere.

Additionally, and certainly not referring to anyone in particular here (!) but to 15 years or more online, there's too much compensating happening online, meaning many people I've read for years need their online existence to compensate for things that went missing in their lives (or weren't there in the first place). I think readers who have had many sites in their feed readers for years know what I'm talking about. I think that once that compensation factor can be removed from the equation, things start to look a lot brighter and, in the end, will turn out to be the better for it (and the ego bruises will vanish). Nevertheless, very few blogs also live off that compensation factor and become ever more readable because of it, so this cuts both ways.

9rules has evolved into a social network (or whatever you want to call it) and I'm absolutely positive that the next version will push it even further into that territory ... and that's a good thing. That whole blogging network shtick has gotten so stale and, yes, redundant (I think that aspect is what dents some egos) and I think 9rules is taking all the right steps to stay on top of the game. I have a lot of respect for Paul and the team because they had to take quite a lot of abuse (too strong a word ... or maybe not?) and instead of bending over, they fight back verbally and just continue developing their vision.

9rules is also a good place for both groups (plus the shades inbetween) to meet. There'll always be people who lament the disappearance of the old and trusted which has made way for the new and bolder (and forward-looking).

To that I'd say: Who cares.
Hey, I like to stay in character.

[/rambling]

If that's rambling, Volkher, I'd hate to see you put together a great piece of writing. I know you have before but still, this is good stuff. Right on the mark.

As for your question: why do you write... As far as I'm concerned you're right on the mark there too. But then again, knowing what makes people tick is your job.

(And thanks for the compliment.)

Ditto to deus, all the way. All of it. Especially on the "compensation for areas elsewhere in life" factor.

I'm with deus62.

Lovely piece of writing it was as well.

Online is just icing on the cake of life.

If the cake sucks even great icing is no compensation.

Wow....

Wow....

Volkher...that's...wow. You have no idea how relieving it is to read someone who "gets" it. I'm glad I saved reading this for the end of the day. :)

Thank you.

"...or being female" sorry Kamigaroshi but you made me chuckle. On a more personal note you do really remind me of someone I know.

It's easy to take online life for granted when you can be just as sociable in real life. For those of us who don't have that luxury, sometimes that deprivation can get to us, especially when you're a city slicker stuck in a small town that has nothing to do.

It matters to me because the point has never been accepted across the board. I lament because I've always desired a place to belong. Because while people take that longing for granted, I pursue it with every purpose and desire. Paradoxically, while that doesn't take me to real life because of the circumstances, it does mean I'm doing exactly what Scrivs has indirectly mentioned.

"To pursue what you want with passion and direction"

Now who here can say that they haven't been disappointed when their ambition or desire isn't fulfilled, especially when they worked hard to get it. Mine's been seething more more than 20 years. So I should be proud of myself for sticking to my guns for so long, but we all know self-praise is no praise at all.

Why is passion and desire considered wrong and misguided when directed towards just being with people and finding a place you can call home? I don't really know.

@Michael: Not to be gender biased but if a female writes the same things I write. 10 to 1 that she'll get far more credit and attention for her work than a guy writing it. It's happened far too many times on my account.

Could it be that you strive to belong so much you don't recognize when you do belong? I don't think anyone here would think (for example) that you don't belong in 9rules. You are one of the ones I receive the most feedback about because you make people think.

The problem with that is that they don't always let you know that you made them think, so you don't realize the impact you have on people sometimes.

Could it be in you are overlooking belonging when you really do belong?

There is a difference between being told or hinted that you don't belong and not feeling like you belong, which of course you're right Tyme, I don't feel like I belong because I am not aware of whatever impact I do have on people if any.

I also know that it's bad to actively seek out acknowledgement to feel accepted because truthfully I have to admit that before this, it is the sort of person that I am. I know better now. Even though I still equate acknowledgement and belonging as the same thing.

But I guess that it rotates. When I feel neglected and unacknowledged in real life, I come online and vice versa. When I feel neglected and unacknowledged in both worlds, I try and ignore it. When I'm neglected and unacknowledged in both worlds and stressed out, I snap and lash out, such as what was written on this note and in my blog that day.

I like to be able to have a conversation and not just have me talk and people listen, that's why I started a blog and that's why I like 9rules. More often than not, the conversations are one sided and yeah, for the most part especially when you put so much effort into it, it hurts to still have it go unremarked.

I'm being melancholic as I'm writing this so it's a little selfish of me to say things like this when I know there are plenty of underdogs out there that deserve the same thing if not more.

In response to Volkher's 'why write' comment, and this is taken from thoughts I expressed as a reaction to one of Robert Bruce's poems over at Knife Gun Pen(if you don't know the site, go look now!).

I’ve had my share of theories on how to write, why to write, when to stop, when to give up. I’ve done the groups, the retreats the MFAs, but ultimately it’s down to no one else but us. We make our choices alone, we dream alone and we write alone. It’s paramount - it’s basic. And as soon as our objective becomes to impress upon the rest a sense of glory and success, we sabotage our potential.

Some people might ask, so then who are you writing for if not an audience, a publisher, an awarding body? I've given many answers over the past 10 years but my answer for now is this:

I say we write for the earth. For the times it was all over. For a woman. A man. For our families, for love. For the love of pure reason and for the times without reason. For the storm, the feather, the whiskers, the smile. For all the dead masters we’ve sat with for hours. For fear of the future and nostalgia of past. For the music, the rhythm the tingles and highs. For us! For us! After all, it is we who ‘are perfect, not the next world’.

I have been blogging for about three years and I've developed a small but dedicated audience. I hope that in a small way I have impacted people positively.

wow. . . . i thought about stuff like this when i was a kid. i thought no1 else would every post sumthing like this though. Wow again though. Bravo to you Scrivs!!!!