WingColors

Not sure why they covered it so highly. I think it was a rather appalling show of misuse of force by the cops and a show of an immobile useless politician who kept talking throughout.

...remember that before we had the TASER, the only choice would have been to beat him silly in front of all those cameras with a wooden baton.

Or pepper spray, or actually training cops the proper way to subdue and detain a person. OMG he's squirming!!!! Shoot him in the fucking FACE!!!!! Here's a tip, sitting on a guy while you're trying to cuff him isn't the most effective way of detaining someone. Seriously, we're talking about an eight hour class that every Marine on the planet has been through that these cops have apparently never heard of.

They have most likely been trained that the TASER is for "aggressive and/or combative individuals."

Most police departments consider TASER weapons to carry the same weight as a deadly-force instrument (read: Shotgun). Most departments use a 5 tiered "continuum" where TASERs fall into one of the top two categories (where the top tier is deadly force). Why? Because you are electrocuting someone. 50,000 volts. That's why.

There are no long-lasting effects in the VAST majority of cases, and its effectiveness is untouchable.

Since they only killed 85 people in 2005 I guess we'll consider that acceptable loss. (about 70 people died from tasers and stun guns in 2004) Of course killing people is an "untouchable" means of subduing them.

Look, think what you like. I'm glad that cops have non-lethal means to keep themselves and others from getting hurt. But the point is that well trained, efficient police officers would never have been placed in a situation where they would have had to taser that kid.

The thing that gets me the most was that he was ABSOLUTELY no threat to anyone. There was a pretty big police officer sitting on the kid's back. He was unarmed, immobile and clearly not going anywhere. Yet, because he was being a nuisance and not easily complying with the officers he got a 50,000 volt enema.

The standard for using those weapons is eliminating the threat of physical harm to the officers or people nearby, not as a means to shut some annoying kid up.

Of course, that said, the kid made his own bed. Do what cops tell you. It's the first rule when dealing with law enforcement. Argue later. I'm not saying he deserved what he got, just that he's to blame a little too.

There is no democracy when the people are silenced. On a rare occasion for the public to interact with the otherwise hermetic higher echelons of power, this individual is silenced because his speech did not 'fit in' to Kerry's agenda.

The difference between this dissident and his equivalent counterpart in Beijing is that this guy gets to go home the day after.

Edit: what am I saying. There is no democracy regardless of silencing.

From the reports around the interweb it has become clear that Kerry told the cops to back off the first time they wanted to pull the kid away. He can also be heard telling them to let him answer the guys question.

Yes the kid is being an absolute ass and from later reports it looks like he's an attention seeking loud mouth.

I think those cops need to go back to restraint and remove classes. I'm also curious as to the major differences between 'campus' police and 'real' police. iF there are any because this is the second well publicised incident of 'campus' police tasering a student.

On one hand, I wish they had tasered him more, or sprayed him. But on the other, everyone who watched the video knows that's EXACTLY what the guy wanted.

He starts yelling as soon as they begin to escort him off, rather politely in the begining. It looked like a "come a long now son, that's enough, you've passed your time limit and are now just being rude." But no, the kid immediately starts yelling, and then blowing things out of proportion "Why am I being arrested? Help!"

I don't know if he was arrested in the end, but he was certainly not being arrested until he threw the elbow. I'd wager he planned on getting tazered. I mean do you say "Why are you going to tazer me?" when you can simply relax and walk away?

I think the cops probably could've handled it better. I know that area of Florida well. They were probably nervous at having to do work for someone so high profile. That doesn't excuse overreacting of course, but I don't think this is much of one. I did say I wish the kid had been hurt more, but that's just me being a vindictive sob. Really physical pain doesn't matter, I just hope he's got a permanent record now.

Kerry can be heard telling the cops to let him (Kerry) answer the student's question, "That's all right, let me answer the question".

And, it appears that they tasered him after he was handcuffed, and not before. In most circumstances a person is tasered before being handcuffed, in order to help subdue them, so they can be handcuffed.

More info suggesting the kid was staging it purposefully

It's pretty clear the kid pushed buttons, carefully, to get the attention. He's got a reputation for pranks of questionable taste.

The kid yells "I'll leave if you let me go" at strategic times, all the while continuing to struggle.

AFAIK the police are allowed to use a taser if they think that there's less danger in doing that than letting the person continue to thrash and struggle against them.

What if they'd not used it, had dragged him away, and he'd broken his arm?

What really frustrates me about this incident is that abuses DO happen, and this moron has marginalized every one of them.

So wrttnwrd are you saying that armed response to a 'prank of questionable taste' is acceptable?

Am I the only one who thinks we stepped over a zero tolerance threshold with 9/11 or does that have nothing to do with it?

What really frustrates me about this incident is that abuses DO happen, and this moron has marginalized every one of them.

I think that was his point, or at least PART of it. It was TOTALLY staged and more and more evidence keeps surfacing to show that it was.

Thing is, the police had no clue how far he was willing to "resist" and even though he was cuffed, he was STILL resisting his restraints so they had to "bring it home" a bit.

I'd much rather see him tazed than pummeled into submission.

No, I think an armed response is excessive. However, speaking as someone who knows a few police officers, I know it's very scary, and very hard to figure out exactly where a situation like this is going to go, when you've got this kid freaking out, with more kids all around, and an ex-presidential candidate a short ways away.

What bothers me here is that he set out with the intention, I suspect, of making this happen. That muddies the waters, not only for him, but for future, genuine demonstrators who are trying to exercise their rights.

Interesting responses all. I think the thing to remember is that the TASER is a non-deadly weapon.

Carmodyarc, I would be interested in seeing your numbers, in the event I am mistaken (which does happen!) I have been familiar with tactical training at the four largest police forces in the nation, and all of them consider the TASER to be BELOW deadly force. Since that covers more than 3/4 of all sworn police officers in the nation, I am curious how you arrive at the idea that most officers use a TASER as deadly force.

As for the number of people killed with TASERS, I am afraid you have exaggerated the situations a bit. Of those who have died when a TASER was used, a substantial number have turned out to have pre-existing heart or nerve issues. Just as when a police officer uses a martial arts move, they cannot predict if someone has a brittle bone disease (causing a broken arm) they similarly cannot know what a heart is doing prior to using electricity to subdue someone.

I would propose the following hypothetical: What would the critics be saying if he had eventually produced a handgun, or other weapon, and used it against Kerry? Then the headline would be "COPS HAD A TASER AND DIDN'T USE IT...WHY?"

This is what I mean when I say we cannot possibly win for losing.

we cannot possibly win

You're right, unfortunately. Even the best of cops never get the credit they deserve because they're the big bad authority figures there to tell you what you can't do.

Even I, who realizes how unfair that is, am often second guessing policemen in certain situations. I know you are there for my benefit, and many of you have really good morals and goals.