WingColors

"I don't feel like I gain anything from the 9rules staff when reading any of the aforementioned sources, instead I usually feel I've just wasted my time and am left disconcerted."

Then why do you waste your time here if you don't gain anything from it?

I am in a professional environment all day at work and when I come to the 9rules site I look for stuff that is interesting quality stuff, and I haven't been let down. I don't exactly expect suit and tie professionalism when I come here, yet, I expect good content from the blog, and good conversation from the Notes, which are both delivered nicely.

The public faces that I see from 9rules is cool to me, and their personalities are what help shape the site and experience. They only come across as human beings looking to benefit the users.

I guess I don't get what more you expect? If you don't find that "useful, informative and intelligent" content, then maybe this isn't the site for you.

Just my opinion.

Brad - Jeez, although you say we're not to take that personally, there's really no other way to take it. Honestly I don't know what you're talking about -- on our blog, in the IRC chat (when we're there), and everywhere else we don't pretend to be what we're not. We're real, we don't lie, we say what's on our mind, and our audience seems to appreciate that since they always give us honesty feedback and opinions. I don't think we'd get dozens of comments on our blog entries if people didn't like how we were presenting ourselves, or maybe I'm wrong and we should be getting hundreds of comments, who knows.

As for the "faux internal dialogs" I don't really see what you're trying to say. In the forums we openly talk with members about what we're doing and invite feedback... just a few weeks ago we posted an internal link to 9rules Live and asked members for their feedback, which they gave a lot of. We also gave members a list of things we were thinking about doing next and basically made it a poll, and because of our members' opinions we're now going to choose one of those options and pursue it first. Saying that we have a "comedic lack of ability to discuss" upcoming features sounds a bit hypocritical to me since you've only posted in the 9rules Forum a total of 7 since you joined 9rules. Instead of bringing your opinion up in the forum, or emailing us, or IMing us, you say it in the most public way possible for reasons I don't understand. I'm not sure why you wouldn't have emailed us first.

We run 9rules the way we want because it's our company -- we talk to members and readers like they're people not eyeballs, we don't forego messages on our blog for press releases, and we avoid marketingspeak because it's counterproductive and insulting. If you feel we're running 9rules into the ground, aren't meeting your expectations, are pissing off users/readers, or are generally acting like fools then we wouldn't want to stand in your way if you want to leave.

Hey Mike,

First, I am not inclined to leave because I believe in the original mission of 9rules and most of the work that 9rules does.

Second, I too find it refreshing that you forgo press releases for talking to your users like real people, but I see that as distinct from talking for the sake of talking. It should be obvious to all that the actions or attitude of the company I work for do not reflect my own, nor do I have direct control over the conduct of the company I work for as I am not in PR or marketing.

Third, my lack of posting on the forum doesn't seem to be relevant here at all -- I am talking specifically about reading the communication from 9rules staff members.

By "faux internal dialogs about upcoming features and the staff's apparently comedic lack of ability to discuss them" I was referring specifically to the following from the official blog:

What are the guys doing? Going through the list when they aren’t programming “stuff”. Ha, thought I was going to give up details, eh? So they can kill me? Don’t think so, but I must say they’re awesome. Wouldn’t trade them for anything or anyone. That is all.

That isn't the only example, but it is the type of content that I described.

The reason for saying this "in the most public way possible" is simple: I wanted to get the opinions of 9rules members and readers alike. In addition to talking to your users like people, I believe that 100% full disclosure at all times can only help a healthy organization. I am still interested in those opinions and will duly ignore the typical emotional reactions like JPhill's.

Lastly, you still seem to be missing the entire point of my note. When I say "I despise drama", I mean that without equivocations. Had I wanted to leave 9rules because of these problems I perceive, I simply would have left. It is precisely because I value 9rules and what it is trying to do that I have written to you, the members and the readers.

Brad - If Tyme's comment is offensive to you, you'll have to point out why because I don't see it. Granted, I may not be a grammar Nazi but it was written in the sense of the various emails she was replying to -- quickly, to the point, and in a colloquial style. Tyme is personally connected to many of our members and hundreds of our readers, so it sounded as though she was joking around and replying directly to them. Are we to sound like robots all the time? If that's what "good companies" do then count us out, because we try our best to act human-like :) If you think we're acting or sounding unprofessionally, then you have every right to leave, we understand.

"By "faux internal dialogs about upcoming features and the staff's apparently comedic lack of ability to discuss them" I was referring specifically to the following from the official blog"

So we're supposed to hold an open and constant dialog with people about what we're going to do in the future, what we're working on, what we're planning? That's crazy! We talk with our members in the private 9rules Forum about all of that because we want their feedback. Does Steve Jobs chat up the media ahead of a big launch and divulge a laundry list of what's to come? Of course not lol.

100% full disclosure is something that no company does. It seems like you're saying we should be sure to tell our readers and competitors what we're working on, giving them all alpha/beta invites, maybe just post the source code too while we're at it? ;)

h3h, I'm glad you brought this up. I'm going to keep an eye on the comments here.

I'd just like to point out that this is their company and they can run it in any way they want, and that they have done a great job at it so far.

The comedy they try to pull works sometimes, but it comes out as arrogant sometimes, like the post you quoted.

These are simply minor details though.

Heh, that's fine if you choose to ignore me, however, I was not really responding from emotion. It's not like I was bothered by what you said, I was just trying to understand you a little more.

As you mentioned, you wanted opinions, so as a reader, I just decided to give my opinion. I guess we can agree to disagree.

Last week must have been my arrogant week, but I don't think my blog post comes close to the arrogance expressed in these notes. I am not emotional when I say you have a lot of nerve, as a 9rules member, stating you are going to ignore members of our community. Essentially you are filtering out anything you disagree with.

Mike, Scrivs and I have discussed this. The reason why we have our own company: so we can be ourselves. So we can do what we want. We spend a lot of time interacting with members and readers. I have my IM set to send me a text message. I work hard to build the trust of members and readers. I share my knowledge because I had a large successful community and blog. I care about our members/readers and interacting with them, bonding with them, that's my goal. I learn something new and every once in a while, I teach them something too. I work on weekends and evenings on 9rules and when I'm out, I try to expand our brand recognition. Those are the things that are important to me.

If you want to focus on my grammar, have at it. At the end of the day, I'm quite proud of my accomplishments.

JPhill - On behalf of 9rules I apologize. IMO, his statement was insulting, I think he owes you an apology.

Tyme,

As I said, you guys have done a great work with 9rules and I'm very proud to be a member.

I said the post was arrogant, it may not be to you or the other guys, you know, it may not be to a lot of people, but to some it is. It's just a kind of comedy that not everyone gets. But as I stated, it works sometimes.

As I finished my comment above (I was referring to the post), it's a minor thing and it doesn't matter nor does it take anything away from what you guys have done.

Keep up the work, I did not mean to offend you or anyone else.

In the interests of having full disclosure, the kind championed by h3h, I'll start this note out by informing everyone that I have applied for 9rules round five. I know any comment I make here has little standing on whether or not my site makes it in, but I would hate to be seen as "sucking up". Knowing that, take these comments as you will.

One of the reasons I love coming to 9rules, reading the company blog, participating in the IRC chat, and posting notes, is because of the easy-going nature of the site and many of people involved with it. I've worked in journalism and writing for a number of years now and even I enjoy a break from all of the "perfect" robotic writing many people seem to demand. When I read a post from Tyme, Mike, or Paul, I feel like they are communicating with me as a person, not a potential source of revenue. In my opinion, that speaks volumes to the character of each of them.

As mentioned before, maybe this just isn't the community for you. I don't claim to know what goes on in the member's forum or "behind the scenes" but I just don't see what the crisis is.

Josue (got your text) - you didn't offend me. I understand where you're coming from and I don't mind constructive criticism. Perhaps I do come off arrogant but my words were true:

I can't discuss what the guys are working on.
They'd kill me if I did (it puts more pressure on them).
They are dually going through the list and programming.
The guys are awesome (IMO).
I wouldn't trade them for the world.

Should I have left out they are programming and working on the list? They are awesome and I wouldn't trade them? Should I not publicly state I appreciate all the hard work they are putting in?

bgilham - bless you. That's exactly what we're striving for.

We all make grammatical errors, it happens... like most of the users, members and staff around 9rules, I too am human. I've made a few type-o's in notes and even with an edit feature, I'm sure it would still happen. Again, the human factor.

Like many, I come to 9rules for the friendly, community vibe... and yes, for the silly jokes and fun poking that goes around. We all do it and I personally feel by messing with people and having them mess with me, it's a good thing... done in fun with no ill intentions.

Now if I say or do something to offend someone, tell me and I'll respect your wishes and space.

I also personally feel that if anyone has an issue with a member, user or staff member of 9rules, it should be taken to personal private email first.

So may times things are misread or misunderstood in a comment or post, so taking it out of public eye until you get everything straight and see where everyone stands in the conversation is always better and saves face or feelings.

Ok, now everyone, group hug and lets get on to more fun and entertaining things... like waiting for Mike or someone else to say "go pound sand!" yay.

Tyme, haha, not at all, you shouldn't have left out any of that, I guess it was just the mix of words or whatever. ;)

h3h: I'd really like to know why you ignored JPhill's comment. Why label it as emotional and basically throw it in the trash? I don't understand that because regardless if it is emotional it was his opinion and just as you want your opinion heard, his should be aswell.

Because I received some email about this...let me give an analogy.

Ever see a home that is beautifully decorated but you feel like you might break something so you're uncomfortable? Everything is in the proper place and if you sit on the sofa, it will get messed up. You know what I mean? The house is beautiful but it's not inviting, it's not homey. It's great for the owner and in the end that's all that matters - it's their home.

On the flip side you have a home that is nicely decorated, it might not be beautiful, but it's comfy and inviting. The sofa draws you in, the colors are warm and you could see yourself sitting there with the food and drink of your choice relaxing, laughing, with your friends. You're comfortable.

That's what we try to do here at 9rules. We want everyone to be comfortable. We don't use words the average person would have to look up in a dictionary. 9rules is made of many diverse communities and we all have to feel comfortable. As owners, the guys and I have chosen to be more laid back. That's our style. We'll play games with you, laugh and joke with you. If there is something we can do to help you, we've got your back, but don't underestimate our professional abilities because we purposely made the choice to be more laid back. We aren't above you, we're right here with you, chilling out while we work.

Tyme is going to stop working now because it's almost 10pm. :)

This is semi interesting and ironic. On the other side of the table I'd be worried of the opposite (as a 9rules member or 'STM') hurting the reputation and image. In other words, there are now hundreds of people associating themselves with me and my company.. can I trust them all to use good judgment and represent me in a good light? Obviously a lot of trust going into who they pick to be members..

But, no matter what any member did Scrivs would out-embarrass them any day, any time. Haha, really, though. The group is fun and human which is a nice change. Why do we all have to be professional? In fact, when did 9rules ever tout itself as a 'professional community' or 'professional content network'? They're simply the best. ;-)

For me, the interaction they do only serves to increase my feeling of membership and build on the great picture I have of the people behind 9rules. I'm not a 9rules fan girl / boy - I just recognise that I like what they do and that is why I am happy being part of 9rules. Having your own business should allow you to be yourself - it's one of the benefits. As a result, how they use their systems is their bag.

The fact they are all human is also something that bolsters my feelings. The worst thing for me would be corporate white washed comments full of analysis of every grammar element. I have enough of faceless grey company comments so would cringe if they started over here. The notes and other things you have mentioned have in my opinion strengthened the company and it's 'face'. I actually think they are more 'professional' than a lot of companies as to me professional should be first and foremost about being honest and true to yourself.

100% full disclosure is something that no company does. It seems like you're saying we should be sure to tell our readers and competitors what we're working on, giving them all alpha/beta invites, maybe just post the source code too while we're at it?

Now this would take some rather large cojones, but I'd back any company, institution, organisation, government that attempted 100% transparency and honesty. It's all we, the people, have ever wanted deep down. But we, the people, are so easily tempted by lies and deceit, fast money, quick satisfaction. 100% full disclosure would certainly remove the drama out of life. Too many people depend on some sort of ethical and moral malice at some level to make a living, Shakespeare made a living off it, Bill Gates made a living off it, why would 9rules be any different?

My response to the public face of 9rules.

I'm still interesting in what h3h's response to all of this is going to be. There have been some good points and arguments made in this note, I'd hate to see it be for naught.

Maybe h3h has run to the hills?

I'm also a little surprised that there hasn't been any follow up from h3h in this note.

Scrivs video on the blog is pretty funny.

How Scrivs, Mike and Tyme handle things around 9rules is a-ok with me.

The personality of each of them brings a little something special to the site and so do the members and also non members.

I've made some good online friends because of 9rules... so I personally feel the site and community is fine.

Scrivs, and the rest of the 9rules staff have shown, time and time again, that they handle whatever bothers them frontally. They don't let emotions get ahead of themselves, they might even toy about it, but they're honest with you.

They don't wear the 9rules leaf as corporate sign, they use to show how great a "community interaction"-based internet organization can work. They select their material because they want to bring only the best of it to their users, if they didn't, 9rules would just be another Technorati.

I love 9rules just the way it is. Of course, it can't stay this way forever, and eventually, things will have to change. The way our groups are organized will change. The way they accept submissions will change.

But one thing is certain.

If they keep making those changes, as they have until now. Not only will 9rules grow bigger, it will also grow into something better. Right now 9rules is a bunch of carefully picked leafs, from different trees, holding on to each other. In a few years 9rules might be a whole tree, or even an entire forest.

OK I didnt read all the replies but Brad- what the hell?

Jeez man relax, 9rules is not the treasury department...

there are a tons of things i love about 9 rules and a few things i dont like...

I do feel most of the posts and comments from the owners are very personal, and that really connects me as a user to them... its not so static i feel connected... I THINK THAT IS THE REASON that its very successful!

and I think for the most part users and member bloggers and owners are enjoying their expereince here and that is a major postive... fun is good

one thing i noticed is that the owners sometimes come of as arrogant know it alls.. it might be a turnoff to some... for me I dont care...I am the same way to an extent....not Tyme though she/he seems very nice:)

*Tyme whispers to Nolawi that she appreciates the kind words, thank you. :)

I think the topic h3h brings up is a good point of discussion, although I've been a bit disappointed at a few responses in this thread... I also think the "good point of discussion" would have been better served privately. I don't care how you phrase "I don't mean this personally" when its directed at them personally - that's how it'll be taken.

Have the "rulers" made mistakes? Of course and I think they'll readily admit as much. The key to remember is that all of the rulers are young. People that are young will act and do things all young people do. Who wouldn't want a do over for some of the things we've all done in our early to mid twenties? Heck in our 30's even! :)

Having said that, I think I've noticed in private discussions with one ruler in particular a tremendous amount of ability. It's no secret that being young usually (but not always) means you're inexperienced. The flip side is that there is also a tremendous amount of energy and growth potential. Scrivs already has a few business' under his young belt and he's been, by most any measure successful with his endeavors. Kudo's to him and the rest of the gang. While I don't agree with everything that is done via 9rules, nobody agrees with everything any company does. The key is that I don't have all the info they have to make the decisions they make, nor should I.

Personally, I think this issue h3h brings up is good one - or maybe better stated, I think his intentions are genuine. I just think it would have been better served by bringing to them privately.

9rules is a dynamic network and provides awesome content. I don't think the discussion should really be directed at the rulers personally in a public manner. I think that is disingenuous. Everyone makes mistakes - not everyone has half the internet watching as they do. And to prove not all things are negative, I think the success of the 9rules network is proof positive they get more things right than they get them wrong and while mistakes are bound to be made, I see them learn from theirs.

Tyme is young?

*scratches head

Good insight imedia and thanks for sharing.

Scrivs, I remember when I was in my early 20's thinking people in their 30's was old but now that I'm here, it's not that bad really.

To quote Mark Twain: Age is an issue of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter.

This seems a little confusing coming from someone who "despises drama in all of its forms". You had to know your delicately worded (<small>cough cough</small> Sarcasm <small>cough cough</small>) gripefest would ruffle some feathers. I guess we all cry for attention in our own way.

Keep on keepin' on 9Rules Inc. Just don't drink the Haterade.

Dude! Small doesn't work?

I take it all back! I am with h3h! How effin' unprofessional! ;)

Ryan: I didn't realize how much I use small until Notes. Have to get that working...seriously.

It is a small world afterall.

Not that this thread is short two cents, but...

I do agree with Brad that there exists a high degree of "bloginess", for lack of a better term, in 9rules. By that I mean:

1. Casual conversation which doesn't necessarily benefit anyone but the two people who are participating in it
2. Posted material (basically half the Notes section) about absolutely nothing, i.e. "shower door or curtain". If people are going to come up with hilarious responses to such a mundane question, then yeah, I can see the value. But read that thread, and others like it... it's a congregation of thirty people trying to outdo the last one's banality.

However, I do recognize that this is a large group of individuals who are not only celebrated for their personalities, but actually have those personalities promoted day in, day out. It's meant to be this way... a forum for some of the most intriguing people to just be who they are, and let the world sit back and enjoy it. That was my understanding of 9rules when I joined; I don't see where I'd have the right to question another's professionalism or maturity in this network, because everyone was picked for being exactly who they are, and it wouldn't be 9rules if everyone wore a suit and tie to the Notes section every day.

The last thing I'll say (which matters not, because who ever reads the 32nd response to a thread anyway?) is that Brad did explicitly state that he did not want to incur any drama with his statements. The words may have been a bit biting, but they were intelligent and well-structured. I have beef with anyone who replied in this thread with "fine jackass, get off our network!", because the fact is that statements like this do bring about positive change... in any organization. Whether they're right or wrong, when people stop questioning the process and the people, the organization ceases to progress.

There are private member forums?

Hey Kyle, yup, we have incredibly active forums where our members can chat about whatever they want. We also talk with our members there about new or upcoming 9rules stuff, beta or prototype features, and ask for feedback.

If I have something to complain about, the most effective way to get that complaint through to the responsible persons and a have chance to get a positive change, is by delivering constructive, friendly critiscism DIRECTLY to them.

Never ever to other persons - or public - in first hand. That's an alternative I take on when failing to reach the right ones. I just don't think that it's FAIR to throw them out to the wolves first without giving them a chance to defend themselves.

That is, of course, if it is a change I want and not only a chance to complain or get attention.

There is one rule that I always try to live after - besides the 9rules - that works all the time in all kind of matters.

"Always treat others like you would like to be treated yourself".

I would have hated to been thrown out to the wolves without having a chance to defend myself first!

I'm sure that the 9rules staff would have met my constructive critiscism very seriously if I had sent it to them, since they are very concerned about everything that involves 9rules.

We're all humans. Different humans with different background, experience and therefor references. That creates some difficulties sometimes to grasp the other, but I feel that if we try we succeed.

There is always something you can misinterpret if you want to. I prefer to NOT want to.

Bring forward the humor. It helps :-)

Why dig among the dirt when we can pick flowers...?

[Here I especially picture Scrivs for some odd reason, picking flowers with his purple hat on...]